As Debbie’s son, I hate dress codes as well. To protest the absurdity of collar requirements, I custom made a shirt whose collar comes down all the way to my chest. Its size is quite objectionable but technically it is a collared shirt. “You want a collar? I’ll show you a collar!”
Nah, it is the contemporary manchild that needs to stop insisting that he must dress like an adolescent. Not every forum is a ballgame, but back when men were men they dressed like adults even there.
Optimo in Chicago is my preferred vendor, though top hats are impractical. Might I suggest a fedora or perhaps a trilby? But please know that there the donning of hats is accompanied by certain time-honored manners, something many might find incompatible with self-obsession and self-actualization.
As a manchild who occasionally wears large collars, I am constantly having to prove to people that I am a real man. I am envious of you sir. You clearly have a healthy relationship with your masculinity in a way that I could only dream of. I hope to one day grow up and be a real man like you.
While the issue is more maturity than masculinity, please consider yourself encouraged. One step you might consider is not flouting rules just to display your belief that you are above them.
Thanks Isabel. I agree with you about clubs and rules. So silly and pretentious. Family vacations can definitely be a source of disagreement. Almost impossible to please everyone. Now that we have a little toddler in the mix for our family vacations, we'll have to recalibrate.
I’m so happy I didn’t arrive that night with loafers without socks. Maybe she would have asked me to leave immediately. Grateful I had the right shoes, she’s so amazing and kind ❤️
I love “which alters when it altercation finds.” Married 53 years and survivors of an early separation, we are both firstborns, stubborn and quick to take offense. Rarely does either of us apologize to the other. It shouldn’t work but it does. We can’t imagine being apart. Love is not a rose, it’s a bindweed, that tough little bugger that cracks concrete with its root. We’ve learned to give each other lots of space for separate friendships, rituals, passions. Have you considered going to the Breakers without Debbie? Or does it take the whole family to kindle that special Breakers glow?
Thanks for the comment Rona. Married 53 years, you've figured it out! I think Tolstoy's famous opening line is simply wrong. All marriages and families are both happy and unhappy in their own way.
Family trips without Debbie would not work. So, we have steadily dialed back on the Breakers. I've learned to love it less and Debbie's learned to hate it less.
Ah, compromise. Where would we be without it? You two have found your own way to one of our discoveries: If your spouse really, REALLY wants spmething, you should try to make it happen as best you can.
I’ve been eagerly awaiting this since you mentioned you were writing it. All I will tell you is that I - like Debbie- have walked along the beach before dawn in tears wondering if I stay or go and if I stay - how do we work our way through to a new / higher plane of understanding. As I haven’t received permission to share the trigger for the walk - I won’t share it. What I will say is that we’re both the better for it - our relationship too…and I think that’s the point. 💕
Well-documented with easy to imagine scenes! Perhaps true in almost all marriages where being honest, open and transparent will reveal the cracks. Repairing the cracks can be an exercise in kintsugi, the Japanese art of making something beautiful out of that which is broken. Happy weekend to both of you.
We started watching "Poor Things" last night. About half-way through I git uo and went to bed. When Bella became a prostitute, my wife came to bed so neither of us found it particularly riveting or living up to the hype. Different strokes for different folks, I'm guessing. Art is like that. Some people like steak. I don't. That's OK, She can grill her own! I often cook for both of us, my choice, last night, New Orleans barbecued shrimp. She loved it.
Instead of the remote control, it is the thermostat for my partner and I, she loves it hot, I yield and tune into my love for hot yoga. A wise man once said “Happy wife, happy life”
Thanks for sharing this low moment in your marriage. I appreciate your ownership of your behavior. I must say I'm firmly in Debbie's camp. I share her rebellious streak, and that place sounds AWFUL. But if you love it so much, how about a middle ground solution? You take a trip there each year with your kids, and Debbie can have alone time that week, doing whatever she pleases?
Thanks Gillian. Doing a family vacation without Debbie is not on the table. She wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to be with our kids. I'll pass along to Debbie your fellow-feeling.
I think on some level, marriage is a series of negotiations. Sometimes, we just have to find the compromise we can live with, and maybe as spouses we take turns giving things up for each other. It seems like you and Debbie have determined that her discomfort with the Breakers outweighs your love for it. It's a hard equation to calculate, and much as I share Debbie's distaste for the culture of the Breakers and places like it, I also have sympathy for your desire to create a meaningful family tradition. Perhaps you can create a tradition around a new place that you both enjoy and you can come to love as much as the Breakers--or nearly as much.
Oh my goodness David, this one really got under my skin—meaning this is a terrific piece of writing. First, because this Debbie is 100% with your Debbie: the Breakers sounds just awful (yuck) and I can’t imagine spending a week there year after year! How and why did your Debbie agree to this?! The simplest answer is because she knew how much you loved it. Second, I’ve had some really terrible fights with my husband, usually as a result of his drinking too much. I’ve never said that publicly (I’m naively thinking Substack is a safe space to be “public”). But now that I’ve said it, I’m wondering if many of us shouldn’t be writing more about this kind of thing (the underbelly of long and loving marriages). Anyway, hats off to you for your honesty and sending my best to your Debbie!
Thanks Debbie. if there was any serious purpose of this post it was to make clear to anyone either married or thinking about getting married, that there are always frequent conflicts. I think that couples presenting as happily married give a false sense of ease.
And I'll tell Debbie that you are 100% with her, like pretty much everyone else who has commented so far!
I appreciated this so very much. My husband of 30 years came out to me and left our family over a decade ago (we were, I thought extremely happy and he indicated this to me daily so it was a devastating time to say the least). Incredibly, though, I am happy once again with a "new guy" of like, fifteen years but since my marriage break-up my "barometer" for this kind of thing has been wildly re-set. Every time we have a major disagreement I feel like I should put my head down and run, convincing myself that he has shown himself to be a fiend and I should make a gravel crunching in the driveway exit or, at least, sleep in the spare room fuming and planning a new life till dawn at which point he brings me a coffee and has forgotten the whole thing!! This was very honest, amusing and well written so I thank you!
Yes, he is a lovely and resilient fellow and is now accustomed to these little wobbles of mine. I also feel they are diminishing as time goes on ... Thanks David!
Hilarious! I just read your comment to my husband and we had a good laugh especially the part “convincing myself that he has shown himself to be a fiend and I should make a gravel crunching in the driveway exit or, at least, sleep in the spare room fuming and planning a new life till dawn at which point he brings me a coffee and has forgotten the whole thing!! “ I think we all may have felt this way! Cheers!
".. sleep in the spare room fuming and planning a new life till dawn at which point he brings me a coffee and has forgotten the whole thing.." This was me, a short time ago, and I had to laugh at the accuracy :D
I loved reading this, loved the way that even though you talk about fighting with Debbie, your portrait of her is so honest and loving and non-judgmental. I am Team Debbie for sure.
The slight upturn to Debbie's lips shows a sour contempt as if she is swallowing down a bitter attitude. She was not yet over it. David looks content as he cups his arm around what he thought he lost.
There's probably something universal and telling about you picking up so much more from the body language than a guy who's just happy for peace in the valley again.
I love the candidness of this so much! I also am firmly in the Debbie camp- hi, fellow rebel here.
As for fights, my husband and I have had doozies over the course of 13 years together.
The most ridiculous being the time I was offended because he called his ex girlfriend Red while thanking her for wishing him a happy birthday. On Facebook. For everyone to see!
He innocently said "Thanks, Red." And I lost my mind. I yelled at him on his birthday about feeling disrespected and became even more enraged when he yelled back "I knew you'd be mad!"
Thinking back on it now I see how dumb I was being, and I had allowed old insecurities creep in. We made up over the delicious red velvet cake and can laugh about it all now.
The compromise is he's not going to do that again and I'm not going to allow old things to rear their ugly heads to the point that I become Medusa.
HA! All I can say is that I've told my wife...of almost forty years...that I'm glad no one is recording what we do in private. No, just that. Yes, it's the fights, but also the petty bickering, and, perhaps worst of all, the, well, infantile stuff married people say and do to each other. Pet names, phrases, silly stuff of many varieties. And we are both writers who work in the same house so we are together A LOT. We have been told we have an idyllic marriage and we do...but idyllic in public and idyllic in private are two very different things.
As Debbie’s son, I hate dress codes as well. To protest the absurdity of collar requirements, I custom made a shirt whose collar comes down all the way to my chest. Its size is quite objectionable but technically it is a collared shirt. “You want a collar? I’ll show you a collar!”
I thought you were going to do a micro collar? This is a whole new business venture.
Production issues with the micro collar
Well done Andrew!!!!
Classic immature petulance.
I agree. The country club rule makers need to grow up.
Nah, it is the contemporary manchild that needs to stop insisting that he must dress like an adolescent. Not every forum is a ballgame, but back when men were men they dressed like adults even there.
Optimo in Chicago is my preferred vendor, though top hats are impractical. Might I suggest a fedora or perhaps a trilby? But please know that there the donning of hats is accompanied by certain time-honored manners, something many might find incompatible with self-obsession and self-actualization.
As a manchild who occasionally wears large collars, I am constantly having to prove to people that I am a real man. I am envious of you sir. You clearly have a healthy relationship with your masculinity in a way that I could only dream of. I hope to one day grow up and be a real man like you.
While the issue is more maturity than masculinity, please consider yourself encouraged. One step you might consider is not flouting rules just to display your belief that you are above them.
Thanks Isabel. I agree with you about clubs and rules. So silly and pretentious. Family vacations can definitely be a source of disagreement. Almost impossible to please everyone. Now that we have a little toddler in the mix for our family vacations, we'll have to recalibrate.
Also, I assume you're pretty firmly in the anti-loafers with no socks camp.
I’m so happy I didn’t arrive that night with loafers without socks. Maybe she would have asked me to leave immediately. Grateful I had the right shoes, she’s so amazing and kind ❤️
I love “which alters when it altercation finds.” Married 53 years and survivors of an early separation, we are both firstborns, stubborn and quick to take offense. Rarely does either of us apologize to the other. It shouldn’t work but it does. We can’t imagine being apart. Love is not a rose, it’s a bindweed, that tough little bugger that cracks concrete with its root. We’ve learned to give each other lots of space for separate friendships, rituals, passions. Have you considered going to the Breakers without Debbie? Or does it take the whole family to kindle that special Breakers glow?
Thanks for the comment Rona. Married 53 years, you've figured it out! I think Tolstoy's famous opening line is simply wrong. All marriages and families are both happy and unhappy in their own way.
Family trips without Debbie would not work. So, we have steadily dialed back on the Breakers. I've learned to love it less and Debbie's learned to hate it less.
Ah, compromise. Where would we be without it? You two have found your own way to one of our discoveries: If your spouse really, REALLY wants spmething, you should try to make it happen as best you can.
I’ve been eagerly awaiting this since you mentioned you were writing it. All I will tell you is that I - like Debbie- have walked along the beach before dawn in tears wondering if I stay or go and if I stay - how do we work our way through to a new / higher plane of understanding. As I haven’t received permission to share the trigger for the walk - I won’t share it. What I will say is that we’re both the better for it - our relationship too…and I think that’s the point. 💕
Thanks Laura. I will pass this on to Debbie! Sometimes fights are necessary to clear the air.
Well-documented with easy to imagine scenes! Perhaps true in almost all marriages where being honest, open and transparent will reveal the cracks. Repairing the cracks can be an exercise in kintsugi, the Japanese art of making something beautiful out of that which is broken. Happy weekend to both of you.
We started watching "Poor Things" last night. About half-way through I git uo and went to bed. When Bella became a prostitute, my wife came to bed so neither of us found it particularly riveting or living up to the hype. Different strokes for different folks, I'm guessing. Art is like that. Some people like steak. I don't. That's OK, She can grill her own! I often cook for both of us, my choice, last night, New Orleans barbecued shrimp. She loved it.
Thanks for the comment, Gary. Kintsugi is a new term for me, so thanks also for that!
Instead of the remote control, it is the thermostat for my partner and I, she loves it hot, I yield and tune into my love for hot yoga. A wise man once said “Happy wife, happy life”
True love, Paolo, true love!
Ah yes! Us too. Heating or AC wars as we call it.
This is like dipping into the series White Lotus
Haha! Yes!
Yes, I suppose we could have been a pair of spoiled characters during that night!
All would have been fine if we'd just been in the Pineapple Suite!
Another moving post. Thanks for writing again about your long marriage. ❤️
Thanks for sharing this low moment in your marriage. I appreciate your ownership of your behavior. I must say I'm firmly in Debbie's camp. I share her rebellious streak, and that place sounds AWFUL. But if you love it so much, how about a middle ground solution? You take a trip there each year with your kids, and Debbie can have alone time that week, doing whatever she pleases?
Thanks Gillian. Doing a family vacation without Debbie is not on the table. She wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to be with our kids. I'll pass along to Debbie your fellow-feeling.
I think on some level, marriage is a series of negotiations. Sometimes, we just have to find the compromise we can live with, and maybe as spouses we take turns giving things up for each other. It seems like you and Debbie have determined that her discomfort with the Breakers outweighs your love for it. It's a hard equation to calculate, and much as I share Debbie's distaste for the culture of the Breakers and places like it, I also have sympathy for your desire to create a meaningful family tradition. Perhaps you can create a tradition around a new place that you both enjoy and you can come to love as much as the Breakers--or nearly as much.
Oh my goodness David, this one really got under my skin—meaning this is a terrific piece of writing. First, because this Debbie is 100% with your Debbie: the Breakers sounds just awful (yuck) and I can’t imagine spending a week there year after year! How and why did your Debbie agree to this?! The simplest answer is because she knew how much you loved it. Second, I’ve had some really terrible fights with my husband, usually as a result of his drinking too much. I’ve never said that publicly (I’m naively thinking Substack is a safe space to be “public”). But now that I’ve said it, I’m wondering if many of us shouldn’t be writing more about this kind of thing (the underbelly of long and loving marriages). Anyway, hats off to you for your honesty and sending my best to your Debbie!
Thanks Debbie. if there was any serious purpose of this post it was to make clear to anyone either married or thinking about getting married, that there are always frequent conflicts. I think that couples presenting as happily married give a false sense of ease.
And I'll tell Debbie that you are 100% with her, like pretty much everyone else who has commented so far!
I appreciated this so very much. My husband of 30 years came out to me and left our family over a decade ago (we were, I thought extremely happy and he indicated this to me daily so it was a devastating time to say the least). Incredibly, though, I am happy once again with a "new guy" of like, fifteen years but since my marriage break-up my "barometer" for this kind of thing has been wildly re-set. Every time we have a major disagreement I feel like I should put my head down and run, convincing myself that he has shown himself to be a fiend and I should make a gravel crunching in the driveway exit or, at least, sleep in the spare room fuming and planning a new life till dawn at which point he brings me a coffee and has forgotten the whole thing!! This was very honest, amusing and well written so I thank you!
Sue,
Thanks for the comment. Sounds like your "new guy" gets the sensitivity of your barometer, which is a great way to describe it.
Yes, he is a lovely and resilient fellow and is now accustomed to these little wobbles of mine. I also feel they are diminishing as time goes on ... Thanks David!
Hilarious! I just read your comment to my husband and we had a good laugh especially the part “convincing myself that he has shown himself to be a fiend and I should make a gravel crunching in the driveway exit or, at least, sleep in the spare room fuming and planning a new life till dawn at which point he brings me a coffee and has forgotten the whole thing!! “ I think we all may have felt this way! Cheers!
Love that you took the time to reply to this - thank you!
".. sleep in the spare room fuming and planning a new life till dawn at which point he brings me a coffee and has forgotten the whole thing.." This was me, a short time ago, and I had to laugh at the accuracy :D
I am also under the illusion that Substack is private. I do feel safe here and amongst others I subscribe to.
we might be mistaken about feeling safe, but I hope not!
I loved reading this, loved the way that even though you talk about fighting with Debbie, your portrait of her is so honest and loving and non-judgmental. I am Team Debbie for sure.
Thanks Deirdre. Team Debbie is growing!
Team Debbie here too. However, ending the story with David's savage light saber lighting up Buddha explains why there's a happy ending. He's a hoot.
Maybe a compromise vacation at Mohonk? Super expensive like Breakers but maybe more Debbie’s vibe.
I love Mohonk!
I'll check it out.
I don’t think you will like mohonk.
Hubby and I live Mohonk. Gorgeous and chill. We rented a boat. Hubby rowed. So romantic.
Been married 47 years since barely 23. My advice for guys - - -
Say Yes early 😊
Lovely photo... you are a lucky man! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6TJU0qWoY
The slight upturn to Debbie's lips shows a sour contempt as if she is swallowing down a bitter attitude. She was not yet over it. David looks content as he cups his arm around what he thought he lost.
There's probably something universal and telling about you picking up so much more from the body language than a guy who's just happy for peace in the valley again.
I love the candidness of this so much! I also am firmly in the Debbie camp- hi, fellow rebel here.
As for fights, my husband and I have had doozies over the course of 13 years together.
The most ridiculous being the time I was offended because he called his ex girlfriend Red while thanking her for wishing him a happy birthday. On Facebook. For everyone to see!
He innocently said "Thanks, Red." And I lost my mind. I yelled at him on his birthday about feeling disrespected and became even more enraged when he yelled back "I knew you'd be mad!"
Thinking back on it now I see how dumb I was being, and I had allowed old insecurities creep in. We made up over the delicious red velvet cake and can laugh about it all now.
The compromise is he's not going to do that again and I'm not going to allow old things to rear their ugly heads to the point that I become Medusa.
Love wins in the end 🫶🏻
Thanks for the comment Mesa. Red velvet cake seems like part of any good resolution to a fight!
It really is! I highly recommend it 🙃
So, I want to be friends with Debbie…
We'll make it happen!
Me too.
HA! All I can say is that I've told my wife...of almost forty years...that I'm glad no one is recording what we do in private. No, just that. Yes, it's the fights, but also the petty bickering, and, perhaps worst of all, the, well, infantile stuff married people say and do to each other. Pet names, phrases, silly stuff of many varieties. And we are both writers who work in the same house so we are together A LOT. We have been told we have an idyllic marriage and we do...but idyllic in public and idyllic in private are two very different things.
Yes, pet nicknames and retrospectively silly fights become part of the lore and the bonding of a relationship.
And nothing you'd want ANYONE to see or hear.