This comment was meant for John Horwitz who has been banished.
Instead I accidentally removed a typically interesting and perceptive comment from my friend Isabel Cowles Murphy. So it was a double blunder, which I am correcting.
True. It's a very particular type of status that is so grounded in materiality and physical presence to the exclusion of everything else. I suppose the modern analogues are influencers and models and actresses. But influencers and actresses to be successful need other skills. Perhaps models too. Like Emma, Undine does develop greater emotional intelligence but it's all at the service of her ambitions for display.
"Apparently, if you possess enough political juice and are a charming enough scoundrel, you get a free pass. You’re invited everywhere; you’re lauded everywhere. That’s not right." Spot on. Great post, and thanks for a brief intro to the Wharton book; I've reserved it at my library.
David, this is the best take on the subject I've read in sometime. I was disappointed to see WJC was given a chance to address the convention. I had no interest in watching his speech and did not. I didn't watch vice president Harris's speech in real time, only caught it yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised, thought she crushed it! After watching the nominee do so well and having just read your article, I can't understand why the party won't move on from people like Bill Clinton.
I agree that Kamala's speech was magnificent. Political expediency and perhaps loyalty to Hillary might be the reasons, but I hope Kamala's team keeps the Clintons out of the campaign.
David, I’m fascinated by your review of The Custom of the Country — it’s one of my favorites too. But I’m equally affected by what your wife experienced at the party. That has happened to me too. What’s most galling is that this man will get away with his inappropriate behavior, he won’t think there’s anything wrong with it, and nobody will say anything. That’s the #metoo dilemma for women. Unless the flirting / inappropriate behavior crosses a line, it’s hard for the woman to speak up (as in, “Stop!”); especially if it’s in a social situation where I presume you both know this man. This drives me crazy… it’s so wrong.
Debbie, I gauged my reaction by my wife's reaction. For whatever reason she was not offended or bothered. But talking to my sister-in-law who was with us at the party and performs as a rock n' roll singer she told me of similar comments she gets that makes her uncomfortable. So perhaps my wife Debbie is unusual in not taking offense.
Debbie, I totally agree with you, that it's so wrong. Because men who behave this way don't get any clap back, they take it as consent for their advances. I think we women can change this dynamic by clapping back or at least not reward them with a smile.
David, this post forced a reckoning that’s long overdue. I was one of many who rationalized Clinton’s behavior because it was expedient to do so. Unwilling to give any ground to his political enemies, I filed the whole imbroglio under “tacky, frat-boyish but forgiveable.” If such a thing were to happen to day, Clinton would not get the pass he was given by so many at the time. I’m among those who are only now revisiting the judgment they made long before #MeToo.
The Atlantic article in the footnote makes for interesting reading, particularly the highlighting of the editorial by Gloria Steinem in the NYT defending Clinton.
I know this topic very well, having been the recipient of such behavior from wealthy and powerful men since I was very young. My last post was on this subject, and I cannot ever express how deep and multilayered the consequences are for the women it touches. Thank you for putting to words and action (just from knowing you briefly) what ever predated upon woman hopes for - a good, protective man of integrity.
I think the #metoo movement has done nothing to change anything. While it brought light to what happens, it did nothing to stop it. Perhaps it emboldened some (because now it’s commonly known as being a thing, although in many circles it’s always been known and simply not an issue) and pushed others more into the shadows. I also think the supersaturation of the movement and the false accusations of some have rendered the movement inert.
I read a fantastic book a while back about the abuse of power in politics that I will have to look for as I have forgotten the name, but I will come back here when I find it. It goes into great depth on Clinton/Lewinsky. And while this may not be a shock to anyone, he is still doing in (though on a lesser scale and in more private circles).
Agreed. The book was called Power and the Presidency. It’s six essays on six different presidents and their relationship with power. I only remember the Clinton essay, but it was a great read. Highly recommend.
I have always loved Wharton’s work and other novels about people of different socioeconomic classes in different times. I love the old Russian novels for the same reason! Those strict social codes! Those worlds are so exotic and puzzling to someone like me, who grew up in a gritty small town. Imagine those people transported into our time. The ghost of those codes lives on in some circles — you alluded to your mother’s objections to a girl you dated when young — but money and beauty are enough now to grant entry into nearly any circle.
I can hope that someday we will not judge and sort people by crass things like money, beauty and connections but by standards like intelligence, creativity and goodness.
But in my experience and observation of life those attributes are interlinked. Beauty,charm and good character go with intelligence and without these attributes access to money by gift,tribute or even just plain old working will be limited or nil. Saying that,an attractive woman who finds that her beauty alone opens men's wallets may well choose to leave the path of hard work and get on the gravy train. Many have all through history.
Astute observations and commentary, per usual, David. The power plays are seldom so subtle as to be missed. I believe is it possible of offer a genuine compliment regarding appearance without any intention of flirtation. Intentions matter.
Agree but compliments these days, especially in the corporate world, can be misconstrued and a company sued. Whats interesting is that the employees who most need sensitivity training tend to be the ones who just don’t get it. Ie— the guy who emails his female boss by accident a joke disparaging women. True story. He was fired.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but it's important to acknowledge that most sexual encounters, even in the most questionable circumstances, are consensual. This reality could explain why the #MeToo Movement hasn't had the thoughtful impact we all expected. In fact, I would argue that much of what we've seen play out in the media appears to be carefully orchestrated, creating an optical illusion of progress while obscuring the casual, often illicit transactions that stem from a complacent relationship with money.
Growing up in East Hampton, I've witnessed my beloved hometown transform from a hidden pastoral gem into a playground for the wealthy, and it's been quite an eye-opener. During my college summers, I worked for a landscaping company owned by my former boss, who bore a striking resemblance to John F. Kennedy. Many of the housewives we served were openly enamored with him. I remember one instance when a woman greeted us with lemonade—topless. On another job, a persistent woman invited my boss inside for lunch.
Throughout these encounters, I couldn’t help but wonder: where were the husbands? Why were they absent week after week, leaving their wives alone? It was during my time as an investment banker that the reality became clear: some men maintain relationships with other women on the side, leaving their spouses feeling unloved and, at times, desperate for attention from others. Hence, a vicious, depraved cycle begins.
I think we all need a crash course in what consent means because I’m sensing that men think if a woman says “yes” once that’s all they need to hear. Men, as the person who is usually physically stronger and has more power culturally (usually, not always), need to assess if they have pressured, coerced, promised favors or gifts, that have influenced their partner. A lot of men moan that this is so hard, they’re at a loss, everyone is so sensitive now, etc. which is an excuse not to do the work of dismantling rape culture. If men truly understood the mental and emotional labor women spend just to stay safe walking down the street, you would see that your work to make sure you are not committing sexual assault is easy. I’m tired of teaching our daughters how not to get raped. Let’s teach our sons how not to rape, how to make sure their sexual encounters are truly consensual.
When one person has agency and power over another, sex is not consensual. This is why university professors are not allowed to sleep with their students, even graduate students. There are age of consent laws as well because children, even teenagers, lack the agency and cognition to consent to sexual activity.
I totally get where you're coming from, but I want to share another perspective. A stepdad I know went through a really tough situation when his 14-year-old daughter accused him of rape. He ended up spending four years in prison, and it was only later that she admitted she was lying. Now he's free, but his life and reputation are completely shattered. It's a heavy reminder of how complex these situations can be.
I won’t say taking back an accusation is rare, because it’s not. Rape victims learn quickly that it is extremely difficult to get a rape conviction. Many decide the emotional damage of a trial is too much and they retract their claims. This could even happen years later, especially if a family member is the assailant. Familial pressure over time, blaming the victim, especially in the case of stepfather assaulting stepdaughter, can lead to admissions of “lying” in order to make “peace” with their mother. I’m not attacking you at all. I’m pointing out your bias which is widely accepted. You can say I’m biased too, but anecdotally and statistically, the evidence is on my side. If you haven’t read the recent story about Alice Munro’s daughter, take a look.
Thanks Spence. That's a really intriguing connection between the Spraggs' sacrifices and modern over-parenting.
I welcome constructive criticism. I am also fine with criticism that I may find off the mark but is expressed politely and is not ad hominem.
Your comment, however, crossed well over all lines of decent discourse.
You may find yourself more welcome and accepted on Twitter. Substack may not be the place for you.
And, definitively, I do not want a troll like you on my Substack.
You are permanently banished from making any further comments.
This comment was meant for John Horwitz who has been banished.
Instead I accidentally removed a typically interesting and perceptive comment from my friend Isabel Cowles Murphy. So it was a double blunder, which I am correcting.
Undine is transparently motivated by status!
True. It's a very particular type of status that is so grounded in materiality and physical presence to the exclusion of everything else. I suppose the modern analogues are influencers and models and actresses. But influencers and actresses to be successful need other skills. Perhaps models too. Like Emma, Undine does develop greater emotional intelligence but it's all at the service of her ambitions for display.
Your are right about Bill Clinton. He needs to apologize and be persona non grata.
You can't include the latter and demand the former. Enforce the latter and whether he does the former becomes irrelevant.
"Apparently, if you possess enough political juice and are a charming enough scoundrel, you get a free pass. You’re invited everywhere; you’re lauded everywhere. That’s not right." Spot on. Great post, and thanks for a brief intro to the Wharton book; I've reserved it at my library.
David, this is the best take on the subject I've read in sometime. I was disappointed to see WJC was given a chance to address the convention. I had no interest in watching his speech and did not. I didn't watch vice president Harris's speech in real time, only caught it yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised, thought she crushed it! After watching the nominee do so well and having just read your article, I can't understand why the party won't move on from people like Bill Clinton.
I agree that Kamala's speech was magnificent. Political expediency and perhaps loyalty to Hillary might be the reasons, but I hope Kamala's team keeps the Clintons out of the campaign.
David, I’m fascinated by your review of The Custom of the Country — it’s one of my favorites too. But I’m equally affected by what your wife experienced at the party. That has happened to me too. What’s most galling is that this man will get away with his inappropriate behavior, he won’t think there’s anything wrong with it, and nobody will say anything. That’s the #metoo dilemma for women. Unless the flirting / inappropriate behavior crosses a line, it’s hard for the woman to speak up (as in, “Stop!”); especially if it’s in a social situation where I presume you both know this man. This drives me crazy… it’s so wrong.
Debbie, I gauged my reaction by my wife's reaction. For whatever reason she was not offended or bothered. But talking to my sister-in-law who was with us at the party and performs as a rock n' roll singer she told me of similar comments she gets that makes her uncomfortable. So perhaps my wife Debbie is unusual in not taking offense.
Debbie, I totally agree with you, that it's so wrong. Because men who behave this way don't get any clap back, they take it as consent for their advances. I think we women can change this dynamic by clapping back or at least not reward them with a smile.
And carry the attitude of once ? That’s a nice compliment. Twice? You’re a creeper.
Clinton also flew in Epstein’s plane.
True. I didn't include that because the facts of that relationship are murky.
Great post. Now, I’m motivated to read Wharton’s book.
Me too! I love Wharton but haven't read that one.
David, this post forced a reckoning that’s long overdue. I was one of many who rationalized Clinton’s behavior because it was expedient to do so. Unwilling to give any ground to his political enemies, I filed the whole imbroglio under “tacky, frat-boyish but forgiveable.” If such a thing were to happen to day, Clinton would not get the pass he was given by so many at the time. I’m among those who are only now revisiting the judgment they made long before #MeToo.
The Atlantic article in the footnote makes for interesting reading, particularly the highlighting of the editorial by Gloria Steinem in the NYT defending Clinton.
You don't have to forgive someone to make a decision that you have to cooperate with them. This happens all the time between divorced spouses.
I know this topic very well, having been the recipient of such behavior from wealthy and powerful men since I was very young. My last post was on this subject, and I cannot ever express how deep and multilayered the consequences are for the women it touches. Thank you for putting to words and action (just from knowing you briefly) what ever predated upon woman hopes for - a good, protective man of integrity.
I think the #metoo movement has done nothing to change anything. While it brought light to what happens, it did nothing to stop it. Perhaps it emboldened some (because now it’s commonly known as being a thing, although in many circles it’s always been known and simply not an issue) and pushed others more into the shadows. I also think the supersaturation of the movement and the false accusations of some have rendered the movement inert.
I read a fantastic book a while back about the abuse of power in politics that I will have to look for as I have forgotten the name, but I will come back here when I find it. It goes into great depth on Clinton/Lewinsky. And while this may not be a shock to anyone, he is still doing in (though on a lesser scale and in more private circles).
Thanks Cici for the comment. Standards of decency are important.
Agreed. The book was called Power and the Presidency. It’s six essays on six different presidents and their relationship with power. I only remember the Clinton essay, but it was a great read. Highly recommend.
Yes. I heard that Clinton demands to be seated nested to young women at dinner parties.
I have always loved Wharton’s work and other novels about people of different socioeconomic classes in different times. I love the old Russian novels for the same reason! Those strict social codes! Those worlds are so exotic and puzzling to someone like me, who grew up in a gritty small town. Imagine those people transported into our time. The ghost of those codes lives on in some circles — you alluded to your mother’s objections to a girl you dated when young — but money and beauty are enough now to grant entry into nearly any circle.
I can hope that someday we will not judge and sort people by crass things like money, beauty and connections but by standards like intelligence, creativity and goodness.
But in my experience and observation of life those attributes are interlinked. Beauty,charm and good character go with intelligence and without these attributes access to money by gift,tribute or even just plain old working will be limited or nil. Saying that,an attractive woman who finds that her beauty alone opens men's wallets may well choose to leave the path of hard work and get on the gravy train. Many have all through history.
One more thing — did you read the epilogue in my book, in which I talked about the rules of sexual misconduct?
Astute observations and commentary, per usual, David. The power plays are seldom so subtle as to be missed. I believe is it possible of offer a genuine compliment regarding appearance without any intention of flirtation. Intentions matter.
Agree but compliments these days, especially in the corporate world, can be misconstrued and a company sued. Whats interesting is that the employees who most need sensitivity training tend to be the ones who just don’t get it. Ie— the guy who emails his female boss by accident a joke disparaging women. True story. He was fired.
Your article makes me think of Kamala Harris, Willie Brown, Doug Emhoff and the nanny.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but it's important to acknowledge that most sexual encounters, even in the most questionable circumstances, are consensual. This reality could explain why the #MeToo Movement hasn't had the thoughtful impact we all expected. In fact, I would argue that much of what we've seen play out in the media appears to be carefully orchestrated, creating an optical illusion of progress while obscuring the casual, often illicit transactions that stem from a complacent relationship with money.
Growing up in East Hampton, I've witnessed my beloved hometown transform from a hidden pastoral gem into a playground for the wealthy, and it's been quite an eye-opener. During my college summers, I worked for a landscaping company owned by my former boss, who bore a striking resemblance to John F. Kennedy. Many of the housewives we served were openly enamored with him. I remember one instance when a woman greeted us with lemonade—topless. On another job, a persistent woman invited my boss inside for lunch.
Throughout these encounters, I couldn’t help but wonder: where were the husbands? Why were they absent week after week, leaving their wives alone? It was during my time as an investment banker that the reality became clear: some men maintain relationships with other women on the side, leaving their spouses feeling unloved and, at times, desperate for attention from others. Hence, a vicious, depraved cycle begins.
I'd agree that most sexual encounters are consensual. And affairs happen often when there's a form of abandonment.
But that's different from predatory behavior.
I think we all need a crash course in what consent means because I’m sensing that men think if a woman says “yes” once that’s all they need to hear. Men, as the person who is usually physically stronger and has more power culturally (usually, not always), need to assess if they have pressured, coerced, promised favors or gifts, that have influenced their partner. A lot of men moan that this is so hard, they’re at a loss, everyone is so sensitive now, etc. which is an excuse not to do the work of dismantling rape culture. If men truly understood the mental and emotional labor women spend just to stay safe walking down the street, you would see that your work to make sure you are not committing sexual assault is easy. I’m tired of teaching our daughters how not to get raped. Let’s teach our sons how not to rape, how to make sure their sexual encounters are truly consensual.
When one person has agency and power over another, sex is not consensual. This is why university professors are not allowed to sleep with their students, even graduate students. There are age of consent laws as well because children, even teenagers, lack the agency and cognition to consent to sexual activity.
I totally get where you're coming from, but I want to share another perspective. A stepdad I know went through a really tough situation when his 14-year-old daughter accused him of rape. He ended up spending four years in prison, and it was only later that she admitted she was lying. Now he's free, but his life and reputation are completely shattered. It's a heavy reminder of how complex these situations can be.
I won’t say taking back an accusation is rare, because it’s not. Rape victims learn quickly that it is extremely difficult to get a rape conviction. Many decide the emotional damage of a trial is too much and they retract their claims. This could even happen years later, especially if a family member is the assailant. Familial pressure over time, blaming the victim, especially in the case of stepfather assaulting stepdaughter, can lead to admissions of “lying” in order to make “peace” with their mother. I’m not attacking you at all. I’m pointing out your bias which is widely accepted. You can say I’m biased too, but anecdotally and statistically, the evidence is on my side. If you haven’t read the recent story about Alice Munro’s daughter, take a look.
That’s awful. Yes. Every situation should be magnified individually.