It is possible to feel that way if you diversify your accomplishments. If your only accomplishment is to make money than aside from soul death you will never feel like you satisfied. Get good at other things. Tennis? Music? Painting? Charity work in which you really use your brain as opposed to regularly sitting at some benefit with socialites who are there because they are socialites? Writing substack(see what I did there? Clever huh? ) Carpentry? Anything that one truly studies and practices diversifies the soul away from anhedonia.
The ancient Hindus opined there were four reasons for being: the acquisition and enjoyment of pleasure, wealth, duty, and spiritual liberation (kama, artha, dharma, & moksha). And that the life most fully lived, required spending the Third and most definitely the Fourth quarters of one's life engrossed in applied spirituality.
Yes, noted. I have been a hedge fund manager and private equity guy my whole life. And it has been fun and interesting and profitable for me. I am very lucky, as my parents didn’t even know what a dividend was no less a stock. But in the end it is acquiring other skills that is most meaningful to me, and having relationships that are marked by fairness and fun is a must. Okay enough spiritual bragging. Back to mourning the Knicks loss last night.
I absolutely agree with this. Diversification of accomplishment, enjoyment, and self-esteem. It's a similar reason you wouldn't put all your money into a single non-diversified investment.
That said, most activities have their own "treadmills" of yearning to be better.
Ah, I’m a Southwest gal, so I rarely see that. Most recent contrasting experience was on British Airways to London. Whew! Those 1st class seats are something else.
Those poor Shermans! I would love to have them in literature class when we discuss The Rise of Silas Lapham, the novel about a 19th-century businessman who inherited and expanded his father’s paint business and tried to fit in with Boston’s high society - until things went wrong.
Money money money . I envision Joel Grey in Cabaret singing. Grotesque. As well Bonfire. As well as my older sister who’s tapped into all facades. “Jennifer. It’s alll about money !” I hung up, numbed .
Interesting. I might have said this before, but Desmond Morris in his books The Naked Ape and The Human Zoo asserts that the creative impulse is at the base of all human activity. I used to agree with that idea, that creativity is man's highest calling. But at the age of sixty I now see this in more nuanced terms, in that human beings are incredibly status oriented, and this drives a lot of our behavior, and for some people more than others. It seems to me that you personally are working to find your creative voice in writing and you just happen to be rich (legacy and from your job) but your real interests lie outside of getting rich to assert status. I am certainly that way, beyond a certain basic amount of money and comfort (which I have readily achieved) I just want to invent and build things. But I think a lot of people are inherently wedded to the notion of increasing their social standing, its just in-built, and you happen to live in an area where this kind of person is commonplace. NYC Manhattan is filled with Bonfire types, whose need for status is never sated. It may also be that people who are naturally extroverted (you and I it seems are not super extroverted) are always seeking status.
Steven, thanks for the comment. Yes, I think that certain types of status are more valuable than others. Creativity appeals a lot more to me at this point than material accumulation.
We used to go to a lot of those events because we felt we had to when invited. Now we are very selective. We are going to the Public Theater, which will be held in Central Park and will have performances. No black tie events!
I love everything about this, and just read Bonfire (for the first time!) a few months ago.
I’m now reading a book called The Psychology of Money, which, as the title suggests, is less about investing strategies and more about why people spend and save how they do.
I used to work in a private club where some of Toronto’s wealthiest played tennis, it was a fantastic education in sociology and psychology.
And last point! About a decade ago, Toronto Life magazine wrote a very buzzed about piece detailing how a lot of the city’s elite were one paycheque away from going broke. It pissed off so many of us mere mortals it was talked about on all the call-in shows. Quite the publicity coup for the magazine.
People will never tire of their love to hate the wealthy and the joy in watching the rich stumble.
Thanks Erin. Will definitely check out The Psychology of Money. I appreciate the recommendation. That Toronto Life article also sounds interesting. I'll see if I can dredge it up.
Oy, David. Couple of things about Bonfire, which was actually a very poor novel. First, Sherman McCoy was supposed to be a writer, but Wolfe discovered that no one cared very much what happened to a writer, so he changed the profession without changing the character. When the book came out, I had just left the Street and everyone I know thought it was ridiculous. For example, when the detectives first come to McCoy's home, any real Street person would have been on the phone to his lawyer instantly and told the detectives to go fuck themselves and get out. In the end, his characters were merely caricatures, which demands a much lighter touch in satire...read Mark Twain. As a caricature and one of a different profession at that, McCoy's entire structure was both false and misleading. As to what seems to be your main point...sure the upper strata has its share of schmucks who spend themselves into oblivion no matter how much they earn...that is a caricature as well. Bottom line, as you well know, is that it is great to have money, to not worry about your refrigerator dying or needing a vacation. The choices people make define them, not their net worth and the choices available are a lot more extensive when you have financial wherewithal.
Subjectivity is the essence of art, so sure. I will say, however, that I've been a writer for 30 years, have written more than two dozen books and won multiple awards. I've also reviewed for major newspapers and been paid to clean up other people's work...or try to. This is not to say I know everything, am always right, or never have my head up my ass. But it is to say I know the craft and can look at a novel differently than a civilian. I also corresponded with Wolfe a bit. But let's get to the main point--we both know the Street pretty well. Have you ever run across someone as dim-witted as Sherman McCoy who was as successful as he was? I sure didn't. Not self-aware? Certainly. Greedy? Venal? Contemptuous of ordinary people? Yes, yes, yes. But that stupid? That credulous? That easy to intimidate? Never. (Compare McCoy to the characters in Margin Call, as accurate a portrait as I've ever seen.)
I think there are a few flaws in your line of thought. First, Sherman was not a success. He was going to be fired anyway because his trade with the "Giscard" was about to blow up. Second, are you really equating earning money with being dim or not? Do you think the Trump sons are smart or Jared Kushner? Third, yes I knew a lot of people on Wall Street--mostly traders who were hired for their connections––who were really really stupid, We sold our first apartment to a trader at my firm and he had to prepare a balance sheet. He asked me if he had to list a debt he owed if he planned to pay it off. Making money on Wall Street is NOT close to perfectly correlated with non-dimness!
All I can say is that it's too bad the people you're talking about weren't on the other side of our trades. Trump's kids aren't geniuses, true, but Jared is no dummy. The dumbest trader I ever knew got fired for blowing up his book and got hired somewhere else in two weeks. And I'm the last person to equate brains with earning power. But McCoy was exactly right as the self involved schmuck writer he was meant to be and all wrong, to me at least, as a finance guy...except maybe a retail broker. I go back to my first point. Are any traders you know so stupid as to not get on the phone with their lawyer the second a cop breathed in his direction? And that exchange is the key to the entire novel. McCoy picks up the phone and Bonfire drops dead. Wolfe loses the the scene in the jail and a lot of other stuff. Bottom line, again to me, was that Wolfe contorted his story to sell more books, which is fine for Dan Brown but not for the guy who wrote The Right Stuff.
Nah, that doesn't cut it. I know you're writing a novel, so here's what I tell everyone...it's your job to communicate to the reader in an explicable manner, not the reader's job to need to search for motivation for a character's behavior. In other words, you don't get to stand behind the reader and say, "I meant this." The text has to do it and Wolfe's did not. I hate plugging my own work, but take a look at Anatomy of Deception. It's a medical thriller set in 1899, with a lot of real people as characters, and was a NYT best mystery. It's a fast read and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.
Another good one, Brother. I agree that BV is a very good novel, and i don't think it's unrealistic that SM (especially 1985 SM - pre Law and Order and the general proliferation of both scripted and true crime shows) would - as a wealthy educated white male and lifelong rule follower and member of the protected class -- have believed that it was in his best interest to cooperate with the cops. (Many of the guys who got wrapped up in the insider trading indictments in the 1980s waived their right to silence and cooperated with the authorities- e.g. Ivan Boesky.). I'm not a finance guy, but I know a few, and i found Wolfe's dissection of SMs reaction to his predicament, and his unraveling, to be both entertaining and realistic.
Thanks my brother. I wonder if the Bronx courtroom scenes would hold up for you. I remember the glee of the prosecution in getting a white rich Wall Street to prosecute.
Your gratitude is a good way of looking at the 17 years of plenty. The New York bubble is what drives up costs...your wife, kids, and nannies, I suspect, would equally thrive in a 4 million dollar house shopping retail and attending private schools. No shade thrown for those who want to make a life in New York. But, there might have been a little more green circulating outside the bubble to make life a little less hard-scrabble for the rest if the prestige-driven create such a gulf.
Your gratitude is a good way of looking at the 17 years of plenty. The New York bubble is what drives up costs...your wife, kids, and nannies, I suspect, would equally thrive in a 4 million dollar house shopping retail and attending private schools. No shade thrown for those who want to make a life in New York. But, there might have been a little more green circulating outside the bubble to make life a little less hard-scrabble for the rest if the prestige-driven create such a gulf.
Well done! Your gratitude is a good way of looking at the 17 years of plenty...your point that the New York bubble is what drives up costs...your wife, kids, and nannies, I suspect, would equally thrive in a 4 million dollar house shopping retail and attending private schools. No shade thrown at those who want to make a life in New York. But, there might have been a little more green circulating outside the bubble to make life a little less hard-scrabble for the rest if the prestige-driven create such a gulf.
Thanks Ellen. The top 10% of income across the country account for 50% of consumption spending. That's not a good state of affairs for many reasons, including the reliance of our economy on a small percentage of spenders.
yes, I believe (and know) it is possible to be happy when we release the perceived expectations of outer authority and our manufactured culture, and we return to the inner authority of our true nature.
I see this to be true for people of all incomes and circumstances, except for those in utterly traumatizing and violently oppressive situations.
the money does not make the man, the man makes the money. and hopefully not for the impressing of others, which creates a never-ending hunger, but for the freedom of choice and of soul.
“Money makes a better servant than a master” feels cliche but applicable in defining enough. I mostly just want great experiences for my daughter, and feel part of enough is finding that on any budget.
I appreciate your reflections that wealth and wealthy are more complex than a number or a lifestyle.
it seems Substack is making it appear like our replies are not posting so many of us reposted multiple times. funny to have that happen on this article. I noticed that I got an “x” when I replied, so I reposted my comment a few times. but, the original actually had posted and the limitation (x) was just an illusion. the limit does not exist 😉
Great piece David
It is possible to feel that way if you diversify your accomplishments. If your only accomplishment is to make money than aside from soul death you will never feel like you satisfied. Get good at other things. Tennis? Music? Painting? Charity work in which you really use your brain as opposed to regularly sitting at some benefit with socialites who are there because they are socialites? Writing substack(see what I did there? Clever huh? ) Carpentry? Anything that one truly studies and practices diversifies the soul away from anhedonia.
The ancient Hindus opined there were four reasons for being: the acquisition and enjoyment of pleasure, wealth, duty, and spiritual liberation (kama, artha, dharma, & moksha). And that the life most fully lived, required spending the Third and most definitely the Fourth quarters of one's life engrossed in applied spirituality.
Yes, noted. I have been a hedge fund manager and private equity guy my whole life. And it has been fun and interesting and profitable for me. I am very lucky, as my parents didn’t even know what a dividend was no less a stock. But in the end it is acquiring other skills that is most meaningful to me, and having relationships that are marked by fairness and fun is a must. Okay enough spiritual bragging. Back to mourning the Knicks loss last night.
Which non-finance skills do you value the most?
I absolutely agree with this. Diversification of accomplishment, enjoyment, and self-esteem. It's a similar reason you wouldn't put all your money into a single non-diversified investment.
That said, most activities have their own "treadmills" of yearning to be better.
Another great piece. But only $350 a week for three meals out? What kind of plonk is Sherman supposed to order?
😆
I meant $350 per meal for two. That's current pricing at a nice but not super deluxe Manhattan restaurant.
Ah! Now I won’t worry about poor Shermie.
I’m impressed that Sherman flies business class. Is he too cheap to go 1st class?
Hi Julie, Very few flights now have anything other than two cabins: Business/First and Economy.
Ah, I’m a Southwest gal, so I rarely see that. Most recent contrasting experience was on British Airways to London. Whew! Those 1st class seats are something else.
Those poor Shermans! I would love to have them in literature class when we discuss The Rise of Silas Lapham, the novel about a 19th-century businessman who inherited and expanded his father’s paint business and tried to fit in with Boston’s high society - until things went wrong.
Tara,
I was thinking of doing a book discussion of a novel that focuses on wealth. Custom of the Country? What do you think?
That’s a great idea. Perfect.
Money money money . I envision Joel Grey in Cabaret singing. Grotesque. As well Bonfire. As well as my older sister who’s tapped into all facades. “Jennifer. It’s alll about money !” I hung up, numbed .
Interesting. I might have said this before, but Desmond Morris in his books The Naked Ape and The Human Zoo asserts that the creative impulse is at the base of all human activity. I used to agree with that idea, that creativity is man's highest calling. But at the age of sixty I now see this in more nuanced terms, in that human beings are incredibly status oriented, and this drives a lot of our behavior, and for some people more than others. It seems to me that you personally are working to find your creative voice in writing and you just happen to be rich (legacy and from your job) but your real interests lie outside of getting rich to assert status. I am certainly that way, beyond a certain basic amount of money and comfort (which I have readily achieved) I just want to invent and build things. But I think a lot of people are inherently wedded to the notion of increasing their social standing, its just in-built, and you happen to live in an area where this kind of person is commonplace. NYC Manhattan is filled with Bonfire types, whose need for status is never sated. It may also be that people who are naturally extroverted (you and I it seems are not super extroverted) are always seeking status.
Steven, thanks for the comment. Yes, I think that certain types of status are more valuable than others. Creativity appeals a lot more to me at this point than material accumulation.
We used to go to a lot of those events because we felt we had to when invited. Now we are very selective. We are going to the Public Theater, which will be held in Central Park and will have performances. No black tie events!
I love everything about this, and just read Bonfire (for the first time!) a few months ago.
I’m now reading a book called The Psychology of Money, which, as the title suggests, is less about investing strategies and more about why people spend and save how they do.
I used to work in a private club where some of Toronto’s wealthiest played tennis, it was a fantastic education in sociology and psychology.
And last point! About a decade ago, Toronto Life magazine wrote a very buzzed about piece detailing how a lot of the city’s elite were one paycheque away from going broke. It pissed off so many of us mere mortals it was talked about on all the call-in shows. Quite the publicity coup for the magazine.
People will never tire of their love to hate the wealthy and the joy in watching the rich stumble.
Thanks Erin. Will definitely check out The Psychology of Money. I appreciate the recommendation. That Toronto Life article also sounds interesting. I'll see if I can dredge it up.
I tried to find it, but it was so long ago, it’s buried pretty deep!
I tried to find it, but it was so long ago, it’s buried pretty deep!
Thanks for looking.
What a fantastic book Bonfire is
I agree.
Oy, David. Couple of things about Bonfire, which was actually a very poor novel. First, Sherman McCoy was supposed to be a writer, but Wolfe discovered that no one cared very much what happened to a writer, so he changed the profession without changing the character. When the book came out, I had just left the Street and everyone I know thought it was ridiculous. For example, when the detectives first come to McCoy's home, any real Street person would have been on the phone to his lawyer instantly and told the detectives to go fuck themselves and get out. In the end, his characters were merely caricatures, which demands a much lighter touch in satire...read Mark Twain. As a caricature and one of a different profession at that, McCoy's entire structure was both false and misleading. As to what seems to be your main point...sure the upper strata has its share of schmucks who spend themselves into oblivion no matter how much they earn...that is a caricature as well. Bottom line, as you well know, is that it is great to have money, to not worry about your refrigerator dying or needing a vacation. The choices people make define them, not their net worth and the choices available are a lot more extensive when you have financial wherewithal.
I disagree. I think the novel was terrific. And part of McCoy's character was being dim witted and non self-aware.
Subjectivity is the essence of art, so sure. I will say, however, that I've been a writer for 30 years, have written more than two dozen books and won multiple awards. I've also reviewed for major newspapers and been paid to clean up other people's work...or try to. This is not to say I know everything, am always right, or never have my head up my ass. But it is to say I know the craft and can look at a novel differently than a civilian. I also corresponded with Wolfe a bit. But let's get to the main point--we both know the Street pretty well. Have you ever run across someone as dim-witted as Sherman McCoy who was as successful as he was? I sure didn't. Not self-aware? Certainly. Greedy? Venal? Contemptuous of ordinary people? Yes, yes, yes. But that stupid? That credulous? That easy to intimidate? Never. (Compare McCoy to the characters in Margin Call, as accurate a portrait as I've ever seen.)
I think there are a few flaws in your line of thought. First, Sherman was not a success. He was going to be fired anyway because his trade with the "Giscard" was about to blow up. Second, are you really equating earning money with being dim or not? Do you think the Trump sons are smart or Jared Kushner? Third, yes I knew a lot of people on Wall Street--mostly traders who were hired for their connections––who were really really stupid, We sold our first apartment to a trader at my firm and he had to prepare a balance sheet. He asked me if he had to list a debt he owed if he planned to pay it off. Making money on Wall Street is NOT close to perfectly correlated with non-dimness!
All I can say is that it's too bad the people you're talking about weren't on the other side of our trades. Trump's kids aren't geniuses, true, but Jared is no dummy. The dumbest trader I ever knew got fired for blowing up his book and got hired somewhere else in two weeks. And I'm the last person to equate brains with earning power. But McCoy was exactly right as the self involved schmuck writer he was meant to be and all wrong, to me at least, as a finance guy...except maybe a retail broker. I go back to my first point. Are any traders you know so stupid as to not get on the phone with their lawyer the second a cop breathed in his direction? And that exchange is the key to the entire novel. McCoy picks up the phone and Bonfire drops dead. Wolfe loses the the scene in the jail and a lot of other stuff. Bottom line, again to me, was that Wolfe contorted his story to sell more books, which is fine for Dan Brown but not for the guy who wrote The Right Stuff.
Sherman panics. I think that probably happens pretty often. It happened to Martha Stewart who lied about her stock sales.
Nah, that doesn't cut it. I know you're writing a novel, so here's what I tell everyone...it's your job to communicate to the reader in an explicable manner, not the reader's job to need to search for motivation for a character's behavior. In other words, you don't get to stand behind the reader and say, "I meant this." The text has to do it and Wolfe's did not. I hate plugging my own work, but take a look at Anatomy of Deception. It's a medical thriller set in 1899, with a lot of real people as characters, and was a NYT best mystery. It's a fast read and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.
Another good one, Brother. I agree that BV is a very good novel, and i don't think it's unrealistic that SM (especially 1985 SM - pre Law and Order and the general proliferation of both scripted and true crime shows) would - as a wealthy educated white male and lifelong rule follower and member of the protected class -- have believed that it was in his best interest to cooperate with the cops. (Many of the guys who got wrapped up in the insider trading indictments in the 1980s waived their right to silence and cooperated with the authorities- e.g. Ivan Boesky.). I'm not a finance guy, but I know a few, and i found Wolfe's dissection of SMs reaction to his predicament, and his unraveling, to be both entertaining and realistic.
Thanks my brother. I wonder if the Bronx courtroom scenes would hold up for you. I remember the glee of the prosecution in getting a white rich Wall Street to prosecute.
Your gratitude is a good way of looking at the 17 years of plenty. The New York bubble is what drives up costs...your wife, kids, and nannies, I suspect, would equally thrive in a 4 million dollar house shopping retail and attending private schools. No shade thrown for those who want to make a life in New York. But, there might have been a little more green circulating outside the bubble to make life a little less hard-scrabble for the rest if the prestige-driven create such a gulf.
Your gratitude is a good way of looking at the 17 years of plenty. The New York bubble is what drives up costs...your wife, kids, and nannies, I suspect, would equally thrive in a 4 million dollar house shopping retail and attending private schools. No shade thrown for those who want to make a life in New York. But, there might have been a little more green circulating outside the bubble to make life a little less hard-scrabble for the rest if the prestige-driven create such a gulf.
Well done! Your gratitude is a good way of looking at the 17 years of plenty...your point that the New York bubble is what drives up costs...your wife, kids, and nannies, I suspect, would equally thrive in a 4 million dollar house shopping retail and attending private schools. No shade thrown at those who want to make a life in New York. But, there might have been a little more green circulating outside the bubble to make life a little less hard-scrabble for the rest if the prestige-driven create such a gulf.
Thanks Ellen. The top 10% of income across the country account for 50% of consumption spending. That's not a good state of affairs for many reasons, including the reliance of our economy on a small percentage of spenders.
yes, I believe (and know) it is possible to be happy when we release the perceived expectations of outer authority and our manufactured culture, and we return to the inner authority of our true nature.
I see this to be true for people of all incomes and circumstances, except for those in utterly traumatizing and violently oppressive situations.
the money does not make the man, the man makes the money. and hopefully not for the impressing of others, which creates a never-ending hunger, but for the freedom of choice and of soul.
“Money makes a better servant than a master” feels cliche but applicable in defining enough. I mostly just want great experiences for my daughter, and feel part of enough is finding that on any budget.
I appreciate your reflections that wealth and wealthy are more complex than a number or a lifestyle.
Thanks Mika.
it seems Substack is making it appear like our replies are not posting so many of us reposted multiple times. funny to have that happen on this article. I noticed that I got an “x” when I replied, so I reposted my comment a few times. but, the original actually had posted and the limitation (x) was just an illusion. the limit does not exist 😉
Haha was just looking to turn it into a quote 😂