15 Comments
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Jonathan Brownson's avatar

Prestige or babies...my wife and I chose babies...

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Ross Overline's avatar

Such a stimulating conversation (no pun intended) — thank you David for hosting and Natasha for everything you shared.

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Jennifer Ward Dudley's avatar

David. Jumped in . Interesting and repartee between you and Natasha is worth the price of admission. She’s fascinating , haaa put on a Polo shirt for you and smart as whip. I’ll follow her . You should continue to be a deux !

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Mullet Snyder, the Lying Poet's avatar

I wonder if this is unique to American culture, specifically the American Negro culture?

In the 1950s there just weren’t very many single mothers. Then, birth control came along in the 60s and single parenthood exploded.

Arguably, feminism has victimized children the most.

Prior to the Pill, motherhood was a high status role that allowed young girls to elevate their status.

After the Pill, the single mother experience, despite all their hard work and sacrifice, just doesn’t carry the same status.

The English language even invented a very specific word; again, out of American Negro culture: the baby mama.

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Roy Williams @dustcube's avatar

no idea where you're going with this riff, but ...

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Roy Williams @dustcube's avatar

thanks for the ride. :))

we had 4 children (negotiated down from my partner's opening bid of 14) and loved every one of them. just saying. and it has been a bumpy ride so far (wouldn't have it any different). my partner always said that what she loved most in life was having babies and making compost, not necessarily in that order (don't know what that does for (both) your rather too neat algorithms, or is it just a completely different gig?) mmmmm ....

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Roy Williams @dustcube's avatar

and remember ... substack is not meant to be a proxy for immortality. it all gets erased with the next 'sharing / shearing' ha, ha. (laughter off ...)

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Mullet Snyder, the Lying Poet's avatar

Substack triggers my mimetic desire

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Roy Williams @dustcube's avatar

or is 'mimetic desire' the playground of the idle rich // the playground of The Literary Obsessive's horses? Or just the favourite pass-time (sic) of substack readers?

Chorus: 'there is a season, turn, turn, turn ...' (da capo). ['nuff]

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Shawn Fink's avatar

“No amount of therapy could have improved my happiness level more than getting off Instagram.” I’ve been growing adverse to social media for years and this conversation is truly hitting as to why. When we all began back in the 2010s era it was authentic and real. Not performative. Even here on substack you see this lethal behavior starting to creep in. Thanks for a great thought piece!!

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a. natasha joukovsky's avatar

Yep, Substack is just earlier in the maturity cycle https://joukovsky.substack.com/p/the-theory-of-the-leisure-class-on

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Shawn Fink's avatar

And yet … this drive for status also seems to be bumping up against bed rotting and kid rotting. Two speeds: all in and perfect or all out and sloppy. 🤦🏻‍♀️

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a. natasha joukovsky's avatar

I am terrified to ask what “kid rotting” is

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Shawn Fink's avatar

😂 Instead of putting kids in camps and many activities letting them rot around all day on screens. 😱

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David Roberts's avatar

Shawn, no question that Substack triggers our mimetic desire, but arguably in some positive ways–––"I've got to make my essays better." The difference may be that we have a greater amount of control here although still subject to luck, algorithms, etc. Plus we can form meaningful person to person relationships.

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