I don’t talk very much about this because it’s not my story, but the importance of being honest before you commit to someone can’t be overstated. A family member of mine has suffered greatly because their former spouse apparently didn’t think it necessary to acknowledge that they were trans and poly until after they married and started a family. My family member did their best to adjust but ultimately could not. Their spouse transitioned and moved in with another couple. It’s been devastating to my family member.
That’s very sad indeed for your family member. Are you sure the trans and poly person knew themselves that they identified this way at the time of the marriage?
Thank you David and Dr. Hull for starting the conversation about sex in such an open and nonjudgmental manner. I understand this first conversation was an introduction to the topic for many people, but if you do a follow up I think there are two really important topics that need covering: female pleasure and consent. The very definition of sex , if you look it up in the dictionary, is male penetration of the female, which results in orgasm for the man, but not so much for the woman. As you so correctly pointed out, Dr. Hull, sex education is basically nonexistent, which leads to dissatisfaction for women at best and sexual violence in the form of coercive or nonconsensual behavior at worst. I think this is a major cause of “dead bedroom” syndrome. There also needs to be a discussion about how women are shamed while men gain social currency for their sexual prowess. The fact that David uses the term prostitution rather than sex work speaks to the implicit bias against women who are performing a service worthy of decriminalization and de-stigmatization in addition to the same rights and protections as anyone in the workplace. Moral agendas have no place in creating laws about sexual practices between consenting adults.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment! I write a lot about female pleasure and sexual agency for many of the reasons you mentioned. I’ve found that women are drawn to my work because it gives them permission to explore without shame. I once heard someone say: “Consent isn’t about permission. It’s about recognizing personal autonomy.” That statement really struck me.
On the topic of sex work, I’ve published 2 articles so far and am working on a presentation to be given at an international medical conference in March. It’s called Sex Work through an international lens. The conference is The International Society for the Study of Women’s Sexual Health and the International Society of Sexual Medicine. I’ll basically be teaching clinicians and academics about the nuances of sex labor.
You're right that my instinctual word was prostitution rather than sex-work. Sex-work would have been the better choice. There are certain things so deeply ingrained after being in the culture for almost 63 years.
One of the issues my discussions with Dr. Hull made me more aware of was the hypocrisy inherent in the laws around people providing sex for money. It's something I'm grappling with.
I have so much respect for you and your willingness to question social norms on a variety of topics. I have been on a similar journey of reevaluating some long held beliefs and letting go of shame I carried about my own sexuality. It's not easy and I try to give myself the same grace I give others when we don't get it right every time. Thank you so much for being brave and starting the conversation about sexual health and desire over 50, 60, and beyond!
Definitely beyond. Someone here said ‘sex until death’. That’s my position, age 82. It just keeps getting better. But I must admit I never had any sense of shame of my sexuality. Not even as an adolescent. Someone should study women like me to understand why!
I have questions about something we didn't talk about–––pornography.
You mention that our culture has been "pornified" in contrast to an unacceptable low level of sex education. In your view is there healthy porn vs. unhealthy porn? And where can one draw the line between something that's sensual vs. pornographic? The famous line about pornography is "I know it when I see it." Another issue is teen and children being exposed to porn and efforts to restrict it.
Great question! And one that deserves an entire article.
The average age that children are exposed to digital pornography is 12. Many pro sex workers have Safe-for-Work accounts on regular platforms like Instagram and Twitter that work as sales funnels to their other channels. Sex sells everything from jeans, to watches to cars.
We have decided as a society, at least in the US, that we would rather allow porn to educate the public than to provide any sort of rational, fact-based sexual education in schools.
The AVN convention is in Vegas this week and I have a few interviews planned. Stay tuned!
I’d love a discussion on this topic. Do you share insight on your Substack? One issue that few mention is whether the women participating want to be there. There is no way of knowing if they are forced. Hubby did extensive research making sure his go-to porn site treats the women fairly and that they chose to be there. I tell my son to do the same. There should be a Glassdoor version for Porn companies.
BTW I know a few wives that do not like their hubby watching porn. My advice is to either enjoy with him or allow him the private pleasure. Porn is here to stay.
I know a few independent content creators who post their videos on sites like Onlyfans. Some well-connected performers have sophisticated networks for vetting and verifying potential collaborators; especially male talent. It doesn’t take long to develop a professional reputation in that world.
Some women prefer to do solo scenes or scenes with other women because it’s generally less threatening than working with guys. There are a lot of shady dudes in that world who manipulate and coerce women. Or who have a history of violence or substance abuse.
I don’t know as much about the big studios but would venture that those performers are there of their own accord.
I do know that porn production requires much more rigorous STI testing than what’s offered in almost any doctor’s office. Most doctors don’t order throat swabs as part of routine testing despite the fact that those organisms can be transmitted through oral sex.
Interestingly, male performers generally get paid less than women.
This was an important interview. Thank you, David, for sharing your personal exploration. And much appreciation, doc, for your openness and experience.
I would subscribe to Amber’s substack but it may be too one size fits all for me. Many docs, who are not oncologists, make the mistake of telling b cancer survivors that’s it’s ok to take HRTs. There are many types of b cancer. I had Estrogen Positive which means I can never take HRTs.
I appreciate this concern and sending hugs to you for what you’ve been through.
I’m planning to take a class on management of menopause in breast cancer survivors. It’s taught by a board certified OBGYN named Dr. Corinne Menn who is also a breast cancer survivor.
I saw the Title of this piece and my late Mum would NOT have approved so I did not read any of it,and as it was quite long and lots of it was boring I skipped through and read a bit here and there ,oops of course I didnt. Dead Bedrooms,ha ha,mine is a morgue then!! I'm being flippant about what is I guess a serious subject but at six weeks till 70 years old I have never attained the spiritual depth or emotional maturity for a relationship. I'm a sort of Bride of Christ but He wants a divorce. Me and SECKS, - Joan Rivers said it "sex education - she'll never need to know!"
I always love reading the interesting comments and perspectives from readers on your posts David. This one was no exception. I offered up my two cents on Dr. Hull's newsletter page. Thanks to both of you.
That was an interesting interview. My wife and I talked about it quite a bit this morning mostly because we are working on renewing our sex lives (we are in our 60s) that was always fun and exciting until my poor wife took a job that crushed her. She was a true believer in the job then misogyny, backstabbing, increasing pressure, nonstop messaging, texting, emails at all hours of the day and night beat her down. There were secret meetings, sabotage of projects and more. Yet she always thought she could make it work because she couldn't or wouldn't believe people were like this in her field. They finally fired her for cause, which a labor judge threw out and actually wrote a letter about how badly she was treated. That was great but it didn't help her mind.
That was ten years ago. She has completely rebuilt her career and her own business. But intimacy was the farthest thing from her mind. If we had not constantly talked about the situation and made little goals to work toward the big goal of a sex life again, well, I can see how marriages fall apart over this. We are doing great now, and she is finally happy again. So am I!
This post makes me very sad. Wow. What happened to good old marriage? Sex is an intimate and deep part of a relationship. Of course it is fun and exciting. And mostly it is the glue that binds a man and a woman. I am 65 and my husband is 72. I have quite a few children so I know the ups and downs of postpartum and child raising. Sex in marriage is a dynamic narrative. It is different on the first night than on the 5000th night. But the music that is created is Beethoven’s 5th compared to the cacophony about which you are speaking. I’m sorry. This is just sad.
Hi Liba. thanks for this comment. I get your POV because it was my POV for quite some time before I stopped extrapolating from my own experience. If you're in a long and satisfying marriage, it takes some effort to recognize that it's neither the ideal nor attainable for everyone. People have different circumstances and different needs. Once you recognize that, you need no longer be sad for people who take different paths.
I’m not saying don’t work on it. Of course work on your sex life! Go to a therapist! Get ideas! Sure! But to reach out and bring other people into a relationship? I don’t buy that it strengthens a relationship —it ultimately weakens a relationship. And I do believe men and women are different, and I do believe that a woman in her essence, if she is truthful with herself, does not feel comfortable with sharing her man. I just don’t believe it. I think that #metoo was ultimately about women recognizing (although not really admitting) that they are not comfortable with casual sex. A woman wants, actually longs for commitment, monogamy, love, respect (a man is different, which accounts for his ‘hunter’ mentality).
I fear your POV is a bit antiquated, Liba. I also don’t think your comment about the #metoo movement is at all accurate. Perhaps you meant consensual sex, not casual sex.
You are 100% correct. My point of view is antiquated. Some old things are still good…old wine, old friends, Bach, Michelangelo…and I do mean casual sex. OBVIOUSLY, non consensual sex is not comfortable (to say the least), but I hold that it was also a cry out against casual sex. Feel free to disagree, but that is my opinion.
And porn? Don’t even get me started on the damage it can do to a relationship! If a guy is addicted, just like anything else, he needs help. If he won’t get it, well, it’s the same with any other addiction. A difficult situation.
I don’t talk very much about this because it’s not my story, but the importance of being honest before you commit to someone can’t be overstated. A family member of mine has suffered greatly because their former spouse apparently didn’t think it necessary to acknowledge that they were trans and poly until after they married and started a family. My family member did their best to adjust but ultimately could not. Their spouse transitioned and moved in with another couple. It’s been devastating to my family member.
That’s very sad indeed for your family member. Are you sure the trans and poly person knew themselves that they identified this way at the time of the marriage?
Yes. They were AMAB bur said they knew they were actually a girl at age 4. (I don't know specifically when they realized they wanted to be poly.)
Documents science denial since 1940's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mx0h4xkoQQ
Thanks for introducing Dr. Amber. Very helpful information.
R.I.P., Dr. Ruth -- your cause continues. Thanks for this.
Thanks for the introduction to Dr. Amber and her sites.
Thank you David and Dr. Hull for starting the conversation about sex in such an open and nonjudgmental manner. I understand this first conversation was an introduction to the topic for many people, but if you do a follow up I think there are two really important topics that need covering: female pleasure and consent. The very definition of sex , if you look it up in the dictionary, is male penetration of the female, which results in orgasm for the man, but not so much for the woman. As you so correctly pointed out, Dr. Hull, sex education is basically nonexistent, which leads to dissatisfaction for women at best and sexual violence in the form of coercive or nonconsensual behavior at worst. I think this is a major cause of “dead bedroom” syndrome. There also needs to be a discussion about how women are shamed while men gain social currency for their sexual prowess. The fact that David uses the term prostitution rather than sex work speaks to the implicit bias against women who are performing a service worthy of decriminalization and de-stigmatization in addition to the same rights and protections as anyone in the workplace. Moral agendas have no place in creating laws about sexual practices between consenting adults.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment! I write a lot about female pleasure and sexual agency for many of the reasons you mentioned. I’ve found that women are drawn to my work because it gives them permission to explore without shame. I once heard someone say: “Consent isn’t about permission. It’s about recognizing personal autonomy.” That statement really struck me.
On the topic of sex work, I’ve published 2 articles so far and am working on a presentation to be given at an international medical conference in March. It’s called Sex Work through an international lens. The conference is The International Society for the Study of Women’s Sexual Health and the International Society of Sexual Medicine. I’ll basically be teaching clinicians and academics about the nuances of sex labor.
You are doing really important work Dr. Hull! I look forward to learning more about your projects. 🥰
Amy,
You're right that my instinctual word was prostitution rather than sex-work. Sex-work would have been the better choice. There are certain things so deeply ingrained after being in the culture for almost 63 years.
One of the issues my discussions with Dr. Hull made me more aware of was the hypocrisy inherent in the laws around people providing sex for money. It's something I'm grappling with.
David,
I have so much respect for you and your willingness to question social norms on a variety of topics. I have been on a similar journey of reevaluating some long held beliefs and letting go of shame I carried about my own sexuality. It's not easy and I try to give myself the same grace I give others when we don't get it right every time. Thank you so much for being brave and starting the conversation about sexual health and desire over 50, 60, and beyond!
Definitely beyond. Someone here said ‘sex until death’. That’s my position, age 82. It just keeps getting better. But I must admit I never had any sense of shame of my sexuality. Not even as an adolescent. Someone should study women like me to understand why!
Great response. I too would love to see a follow up convo.
David. I needed this. Marriage 44 years. Time to remember the times and rekindle
I have questions about something we didn't talk about–––pornography.
You mention that our culture has been "pornified" in contrast to an unacceptable low level of sex education. In your view is there healthy porn vs. unhealthy porn? And where can one draw the line between something that's sensual vs. pornographic? The famous line about pornography is "I know it when I see it." Another issue is teen and children being exposed to porn and efforts to restrict it.
Posting on both sites.
Great question! And one that deserves an entire article.
The average age that children are exposed to digital pornography is 12. Many pro sex workers have Safe-for-Work accounts on regular platforms like Instagram and Twitter that work as sales funnels to their other channels. Sex sells everything from jeans, to watches to cars.
We have decided as a society, at least in the US, that we would rather allow porn to educate the public than to provide any sort of rational, fact-based sexual education in schools.
The AVN convention is in Vegas this week and I have a few interviews planned. Stay tuned!
I’d love a discussion on this topic. Do you share insight on your Substack? One issue that few mention is whether the women participating want to be there. There is no way of knowing if they are forced. Hubby did extensive research making sure his go-to porn site treats the women fairly and that they chose to be there. I tell my son to do the same. There should be a Glassdoor version for Porn companies.
BTW I know a few wives that do not like their hubby watching porn. My advice is to either enjoy with him or allow him the private pleasure. Porn is here to stay.
Carissa, that last sentence would fit nicely on a t-shirt! And i agree with you.
I know a few independent content creators who post their videos on sites like Onlyfans. Some well-connected performers have sophisticated networks for vetting and verifying potential collaborators; especially male talent. It doesn’t take long to develop a professional reputation in that world.
Some women prefer to do solo scenes or scenes with other women because it’s generally less threatening than working with guys. There are a lot of shady dudes in that world who manipulate and coerce women. Or who have a history of violence or substance abuse.
I don’t know as much about the big studios but would venture that those performers are there of their own accord.
I do know that porn production requires much more rigorous STI testing than what’s offered in almost any doctor’s office. Most doctors don’t order throat swabs as part of routine testing despite the fact that those organisms can be transmitted through oral sex.
Interestingly, male performers generally get paid less than women.
David, I left my comment (for you) on Dr. Amber’s post. Thank you both for a stimulating and honest conversation.
With all due respect to your wife, that title really caught my attention!
This was an important interview. Thank you, David, for sharing your personal exploration. And much appreciation, doc, for your openness and experience.
I would subscribe to Amber’s substack but it may be too one size fits all for me. Many docs, who are not oncologists, make the mistake of telling b cancer survivors that’s it’s ok to take HRTs. There are many types of b cancer. I had Estrogen Positive which means I can never take HRTs.
I never knew that about HRT. Could be relevant to someone I know who's much younger.
To be clear, Dr. Hull is not giving medical advice on her site or elsewhere. She writes about different aspects of sex health and sex issues.
I appreciate this concern and sending hugs to you for what you’ve been through.
I’m planning to take a class on management of menopause in breast cancer survivors. It’s taught by a board certified OBGYN named Dr. Corinne Menn who is also a breast cancer survivor.
I saw the Title of this piece and my late Mum would NOT have approved so I did not read any of it,and as it was quite long and lots of it was boring I skipped through and read a bit here and there ,oops of course I didnt. Dead Bedrooms,ha ha,mine is a morgue then!! I'm being flippant about what is I guess a serious subject but at six weeks till 70 years old I have never attained the spiritual depth or emotional maturity for a relationship. I'm a sort of Bride of Christ but He wants a divorce. Me and SECKS, - Joan Rivers said it "sex education - she'll never need to know!"
I always love reading the interesting comments and perspectives from readers on your posts David. This one was no exception. I offered up my two cents on Dr. Hull's newsletter page. Thanks to both of you.
That was an interesting interview. My wife and I talked about it quite a bit this morning mostly because we are working on renewing our sex lives (we are in our 60s) that was always fun and exciting until my poor wife took a job that crushed her. She was a true believer in the job then misogyny, backstabbing, increasing pressure, nonstop messaging, texting, emails at all hours of the day and night beat her down. There were secret meetings, sabotage of projects and more. Yet she always thought she could make it work because she couldn't or wouldn't believe people were like this in her field. They finally fired her for cause, which a labor judge threw out and actually wrote a letter about how badly she was treated. That was great but it didn't help her mind.
That was ten years ago. She has completely rebuilt her career and her own business. But intimacy was the farthest thing from her mind. If we had not constantly talked about the situation and made little goals to work toward the big goal of a sex life again, well, I can see how marriages fall apart over this. We are doing great now, and she is finally happy again. So am I!
This post makes me very sad. Wow. What happened to good old marriage? Sex is an intimate and deep part of a relationship. Of course it is fun and exciting. And mostly it is the glue that binds a man and a woman. I am 65 and my husband is 72. I have quite a few children so I know the ups and downs of postpartum and child raising. Sex in marriage is a dynamic narrative. It is different on the first night than on the 5000th night. But the music that is created is Beethoven’s 5th compared to the cacophony about which you are speaking. I’m sorry. This is just sad.
Hi Liba. thanks for this comment. I get your POV because it was my POV for quite some time before I stopped extrapolating from my own experience. If you're in a long and satisfying marriage, it takes some effort to recognize that it's neither the ideal nor attainable for everyone. People have different circumstances and different needs. Once you recognize that, you need no longer be sad for people who take different paths.
I’m not saying don’t work on it. Of course work on your sex life! Go to a therapist! Get ideas! Sure! But to reach out and bring other people into a relationship? I don’t buy that it strengthens a relationship —it ultimately weakens a relationship. And I do believe men and women are different, and I do believe that a woman in her essence, if she is truthful with herself, does not feel comfortable with sharing her man. I just don’t believe it. I think that #metoo was ultimately about women recognizing (although not really admitting) that they are not comfortable with casual sex. A woman wants, actually longs for commitment, monogamy, love, respect (a man is different, which accounts for his ‘hunter’ mentality).
I fear your POV is a bit antiquated, Liba. I also don’t think your comment about the #metoo movement is at all accurate. Perhaps you meant consensual sex, not casual sex.
You are 100% correct. My point of view is antiquated. Some old things are still good…old wine, old friends, Bach, Michelangelo…and I do mean casual sex. OBVIOUSLY, non consensual sex is not comfortable (to say the least), but I hold that it was also a cry out against casual sex. Feel free to disagree, but that is my opinion.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
And porn? Don’t even get me started on the damage it can do to a relationship! If a guy is addicted, just like anything else, he needs help. If he won’t get it, well, it’s the same with any other addiction. A difficult situation.