Edward Norton is one of my favorites! I might have to see if I can find that movie.
Yes, I’ve had those people in my life, and I think there is a certain amount of excitement for awhile, but then it gets exhausting. I had a friend whose mother had been diagnosed as a schizophrenic when my friend was in college. Her mother ended up committing suicide, unfortunately. Her parents had divorced, after her father (he was constantly getting kicked out of the house) ran into his old girlfriend at a high school reunion, and decided he was still in love with her.
For reasons only a therapist could understand, this same friend was constantly going from one set of problems to another, and I kept wondering how and why because in so many ways she was really smart. She ended up moving away, but she would call me regularly, too often crying over the way some man in her life was treating her. There is/was so much it would take a book, so I’ll do my best to condense.
She (my friend) had married her college “sweet heart” because his mother finally went out and bought the engagement ring. She got pregnant (even though she supposedly couldn’t), and of course, ended up divorcing him. Then she met a much older man at some horse show, and ended taking her son to live with him. That went pretty well for a number of years until her boyfriend got cancer, and turned her life into another nightmare. He wasn’t even dead before she was flirting with the UPS guy (her boyfriend had a saddle shop, so there were a lot of shipments coming and going). Somehow, nothing really came of that, but there was another guy she had a one-night stand with, and she thought there might be more except that he lived with his mother and had PTSD from serving in the Golf War.
Her boyfriend finally died, and then there was a dispute over the saddle shop with his sister who ended up buying my friend out. So, she bought a house! But meanwhile she was trying to find the next “love her life” using online dating sites. She’s lucky nothing bad happened to her because one of them invited her to visit him in NYC (she lived in Missouri) and sure enough, she booked a flight and spent the weekend with some guy who was from the Middle East, and couldn’t find a job. (I still wonder how he managed to have an apartment???)
She found a guy closer to home, and before long he had moved in with her. She was paying for pretty much everything because he was laid off or something like that. BUT, he still had his fancy motorcycle, and continued to hang out with the guys (and a girl or two). She had a dog, so he moved in his two, and then she was cleaning up after three. Guess what? That one finally fell apart, and she dumped all of his stuff in the front yard.
Next she met a guy from Israel who was in some locksmith business. My husband looked into it, and it appeared there was some kind of scam going on with at least a few of the outlets. It seems that he was not involved in that, BUT he still had that ex-wife, and the “hot” ex girlfriend, along with a college age daughter. Let’s just say it was “messy.”
Meanwhile, my friend’s father ended up with cancer of the mouth. That wasn’t her fault, of course, and it really was a horrible time. He also ended up killing himself, unfortunately.
I guess she’s still with the Israeli guy, and that’s been a number of years, so hopefully it’s going well for them. Somehow I doubt it, but happily, that part of my life is in the past.
Two movies come to mind that have a similar character dilemma "Money Train" and "White Men Can't Jump". In both of these film's the main characters were played by Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrelson. Only enough in both films the the leading and dominant protagonist is played by Wesley Snipes. His characters prevails where Woody Harrelson's seems to attract chaos and likes flirting with the dance of great success and total failure. In both, I think the audience would say they like Woody Harrelson's character (Billy Doyle) more despite his self destructive behavioral traits he comes across as the better man, more good than evil. Also, some would argue that Wesley Snipes character (Sidney Deane in "White Men Can't Jump", is a bit of shark. He rises, but only by cheating his friend and partner in crime out of the prize winning pot knowing it will destroy Woody Harrelson's relationship as he uses his girlfriends winning in the wager.
I have always had a tendency to want to save my friends and acquaintances, but as I get older I realize that real love and friendship means you step back and let them deal with the fallout so they may gain the character necessary to not make the same mistakes over and over again.
I wonder whether it's a shared feeling that "non-chaos" people have of: "why do I keep attracting chaos friends?". Interestingly, since childhood I've always had exactly one chaos friend at any given time.
As a kid, chaos friends got me into small-time trouble. As a teenager, chaos friends lived life on the edge, and sometimes dragged me there with them. As an adult, chaos friends seem to have an air of disorganisation, swinging in and out of my life, and being generally, well... chaotic in their larger pursuits.
Interesting how in one movie Ed Norton plays the chaos friend, but in Fight Club, he's very much the non-chaos friend.
I think really bad gossipers can be chaos friends. (Emphasis on "bad". Everyone gossips, I just mean the people who live for gossiping).
Their chaos is obviously disrupting group dynamics that seem to be humming along, or adding a seed of doubt to a healthy relationship. I recently met someone who began gossiping to me about complete strangers within 10 minutes of meeting her (hence, she was a complete stranger). It was meant to be a bonding mechanism between us, but yeah, chaos creator.
My old buddy Ted is—or was—a chaos attractor. In the early days I enjoyed his this part of him, while also being afraid of it—and admiring him for it. I saw him as being more free in being himself than I—and I was right about that. Thing is, it wasn't possible to get all that close to this guy without getting pulled in to the chaos. I got too close, and that was part of why I had to run, as I write about in this chapter:
I've had several of these chaos friends—and eventually I learned to have fewer of them. When I think about it now, even though I can still enjoy the buzz that surrounds a chaotic person, I get tired of it real quick—like in seconds. My chaos detector got very finely attuned by spending time around chaos, and now I stay away.
Rounders is great indeed. I must admit in a honest look back at my drinking and using days that I was that chaos friend to many of my own friends. They all breathed a huge sigh of relief when I sobered up, particularly the married family men 😉
Edward Norton is one of my favorites! I might have to see if I can find that movie.
Yes, I’ve had those people in my life, and I think there is a certain amount of excitement for awhile, but then it gets exhausting. I had a friend whose mother had been diagnosed as a schizophrenic when my friend was in college. Her mother ended up committing suicide, unfortunately. Her parents had divorced, after her father (he was constantly getting kicked out of the house) ran into his old girlfriend at a high school reunion, and decided he was still in love with her.
For reasons only a therapist could understand, this same friend was constantly going from one set of problems to another, and I kept wondering how and why because in so many ways she was really smart. She ended up moving away, but she would call me regularly, too often crying over the way some man in her life was treating her. There is/was so much it would take a book, so I’ll do my best to condense.
She (my friend) had married her college “sweet heart” because his mother finally went out and bought the engagement ring. She got pregnant (even though she supposedly couldn’t), and of course, ended up divorcing him. Then she met a much older man at some horse show, and ended taking her son to live with him. That went pretty well for a number of years until her boyfriend got cancer, and turned her life into another nightmare. He wasn’t even dead before she was flirting with the UPS guy (her boyfriend had a saddle shop, so there were a lot of shipments coming and going). Somehow, nothing really came of that, but there was another guy she had a one-night stand with, and she thought there might be more except that he lived with his mother and had PTSD from serving in the Golf War.
Her boyfriend finally died, and then there was a dispute over the saddle shop with his sister who ended up buying my friend out. So, she bought a house! But meanwhile she was trying to find the next “love her life” using online dating sites. She’s lucky nothing bad happened to her because one of them invited her to visit him in NYC (she lived in Missouri) and sure enough, she booked a flight and spent the weekend with some guy who was from the Middle East, and couldn’t find a job. (I still wonder how he managed to have an apartment???)
She found a guy closer to home, and before long he had moved in with her. She was paying for pretty much everything because he was laid off or something like that. BUT, he still had his fancy motorcycle, and continued to hang out with the guys (and a girl or two). She had a dog, so he moved in his two, and then she was cleaning up after three. Guess what? That one finally fell apart, and she dumped all of his stuff in the front yard.
Next she met a guy from Israel who was in some locksmith business. My husband looked into it, and it appeared there was some kind of scam going on with at least a few of the outlets. It seems that he was not involved in that, BUT he still had that ex-wife, and the “hot” ex girlfriend, along with a college age daughter. Let’s just say it was “messy.”
Meanwhile, my friend’s father ended up with cancer of the mouth. That wasn’t her fault, of course, and it really was a horrible time. He also ended up killing himself, unfortunately.
I guess she’s still with the Israeli guy, and that’s been a number of years, so hopefully it’s going well for them. Somehow I doubt it, but happily, that part of my life is in the past.
Two movies come to mind that have a similar character dilemma "Money Train" and "White Men Can't Jump". In both of these film's the main characters were played by Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrelson. Only enough in both films the the leading and dominant protagonist is played by Wesley Snipes. His characters prevails where Woody Harrelson's seems to attract chaos and likes flirting with the dance of great success and total failure. In both, I think the audience would say they like Woody Harrelson's character (Billy Doyle) more despite his self destructive behavioral traits he comes across as the better man, more good than evil. Also, some would argue that Wesley Snipes character (Sidney Deane in "White Men Can't Jump", is a bit of shark. He rises, but only by cheating his friend and partner in crime out of the prize winning pot knowing it will destroy Woody Harrelson's relationship as he uses his girlfriends winning in the wager.
I have always had a tendency to want to save my friends and acquaintances, but as I get older I realize that real love and friendship means you step back and let them deal with the fallout so they may gain the character necessary to not make the same mistakes over and over again.
I wonder whether it's a shared feeling that "non-chaos" people have of: "why do I keep attracting chaos friends?". Interestingly, since childhood I've always had exactly one chaos friend at any given time.
As a kid, chaos friends got me into small-time trouble. As a teenager, chaos friends lived life on the edge, and sometimes dragged me there with them. As an adult, chaos friends seem to have an air of disorganisation, swinging in and out of my life, and being generally, well... chaotic in their larger pursuits.
Interesting how in one movie Ed Norton plays the chaos friend, but in Fight Club, he's very much the non-chaos friend.
I think really bad gossipers can be chaos friends. (Emphasis on "bad". Everyone gossips, I just mean the people who live for gossiping).
Their chaos is obviously disrupting group dynamics that seem to be humming along, or adding a seed of doubt to a healthy relationship. I recently met someone who began gossiping to me about complete strangers within 10 minutes of meeting her (hence, she was a complete stranger). It was meant to be a bonding mechanism between us, but yeah, chaos creator.
My old buddy Ted is—or was—a chaos attractor. In the early days I enjoyed his this part of him, while also being afraid of it—and admiring him for it. I saw him as being more free in being himself than I—and I was right about that. Thing is, it wasn't possible to get all that close to this guy without getting pulled in to the chaos. I got too close, and that was part of why I had to run, as I write about in this chapter:
https://bowendwelle.substack.com/p/13-desperate-exit
I've had several of these chaos friends—and eventually I learned to have fewer of them. When I think about it now, even though I can still enjoy the buzz that surrounds a chaotic person, I get tired of it real quick—like in seconds. My chaos detector got very finely attuned by spending time around chaos, and now I stay away.
Rounders is great indeed. I must admit in a honest look back at my drinking and using days that I was that chaos friend to many of my own friends. They all breathed a huge sigh of relief when I sobered up, particularly the married family men 😉