David - enjoyed this intriguing post. I read The Brothers Karamazov earlier this year so this story is still somewhat fresh in my mind. The Grand Inquisitor is a beautiful chapter and the story as a whole is a fascinating exploration of faith.
I don't have the answer to your question as I am only human and not god. What I have found interesting though is that frequently our fragmentation happens at the macro level. Groups tend to fight or hate or have animosity towards other groups. At the micro level, individual to individual we frequently see the reverse. These are not universal rules obviously but I wonder if there is something in the herd mentality that causes us to fragment or follow paths we would not normally take on our own.
It is an intriguing dilemma to ponder and one that is timely for our world.
Beautiful conclusion in such a difficult time. Thank you. I must admit that I did laugh out loud when I read your son’s response to the rabbis story! So fresh and honest. A subtext too seems to be how important it is to have the courage to tell like you see it.. Thank you, David. Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Here is my take- the rich man discovers the poor man taking his sacrifice and eating it. He becomes enraged and kills the poor man. He keeps on leaving the loaf of bread but there is no one there to take it now, no God accepting the sacrifice. I think that faith based on the believe of our own goodness is a tricky issue. I (catholic) belief that faith is redemption when we are humble to understand that we are just not enough. Not in a self-loathing way, but in a way where you, the rich man, understand that your deficiencies are just as bad as mine, the poor man. And the love of God is the only thing that will compensate for this. Then and only then can we feel like we are equals.
NB: the "you" and "me" adjudications are merely ilustratory. Me mentioning I was raised catholic is to provide the background of my take on life and redemption.
I truly enjoyed your post and I think your son showed some remarkable courage to say that where he did ;)
Well, David, there lies the conundrum of religion and the belief that God has a hand in human behavior. For what one might describe as "bad" people, religion becomes a justification to act immorally...I did not want to take away your civil rights, or impress you into slavery, or burn you at the stake, but it was God's will. There are scores of everyday acts that fall into that category, many currently advocated by Mike Johnson. For what one might describe as "good" people, religion and the belief that God has a hand in human behavior has no relevance...they behave morally simply because they believe it is the right thing to do. There is a scene in Lawrence of Arabia where Prince Faisel, speaking to the cynical American reporter, says, "For Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. For me, it is merely good manners. I leave it to you to decide which is the more...reliable." That notion can be extrapolated to many areas of human interaction, which leaves the question of whether religion and the belief that God has any hand whatever in human behavior makes the human species more or less likely to act with generosity, courtesy, fairness, self-sacrifice and many other traits that just about every religion defines as righteous.
"People can be kind and generous and noble for no other reason than their belief in their own goodness and the goodness of others." Thanks for these words, David. That belief is what can save us, once again.
The Brothers Karamazov I read first in my teens and then again in my thirties. The section of the Grand Inquisitor remains indelible for me. I do think we live now in a dangerous time while we wait to see if individuals will find the way to stand and speak and vote against the terror that awaits and knows no bounds.
Wonderful story of your son and weaving in the Grand Inquisitor and Brothers Karamazov. I’m a believer in Hashem with strong trust and faith. Your question brings up so many variances. Here’s my answer—Our fragmentation is both a bug and feature of the human condition. Ever since Eve took that bite. (G-d’s reaction— Really? You just opened up a can of worms— in the apple too.) We became complicated fragments of G-d. I could go on but it would be a treatise. Oy.
The piece is, as always well crafted and enjoyable to read, especially since I know the 12 year old in both his past and current mischief-making incarnations. But it recalls for me the time in adolescence when I was enthralled by Dostoevsky and his Big Ideas - as if there were some major philosophical problem presented by his parable that deserved grave consideration. Then for better or worse any interest in Dostoevsky or his Ideas was obliterated by a true master, Vladimir Nabokov, who had this to say about Fyodor:
“Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human English words expressing several, although by no means all, aspects of poshlost are, for instance, ”cheap,” ”sham,” ”smutty,” ”highfalutin,” ”in bad taste.” dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place.””
–from Lectures on Russian Literature, reprinted in The New York Times.
Two other quotes come to mind reading your piece, maybe idiosyncratically conceived and not truly connected to the GI or your musings, or maybe the product of natural connection:
(1) "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.... I agree with the second part."
Det. Somerset (played by the inimitable Morgan Freeman), 7even. (A minute or so after: "What's in the bahhxxx!?")
(2) Philosophy is just a byproduct of misunderstanding language.
You have my mind thinking 🤔. Thank you 🙏
David - enjoyed this intriguing post. I read The Brothers Karamazov earlier this year so this story is still somewhat fresh in my mind. The Grand Inquisitor is a beautiful chapter and the story as a whole is a fascinating exploration of faith.
I don't have the answer to your question as I am only human and not god. What I have found interesting though is that frequently our fragmentation happens at the macro level. Groups tend to fight or hate or have animosity towards other groups. At the micro level, individual to individual we frequently see the reverse. These are not universal rules obviously but I wonder if there is something in the herd mentality that causes us to fragment or follow paths we would not normally take on our own.
It is an intriguing dilemma to ponder and one that is timely for our world.
You have my mind thinking, too, David.
WOW what a tour de force.
Thank you for your deep exploration
More later
after I have pondered
Beautiful conclusion in such a difficult time. Thank you. I must admit that I did laugh out loud when I read your son’s response to the rabbis story! So fresh and honest. A subtext too seems to be how important it is to have the courage to tell like you see it.. Thank you, David. Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Loved the story. I could see my grandson doing exactly the same thing.
Here is my take- the rich man discovers the poor man taking his sacrifice and eating it. He becomes enraged and kills the poor man. He keeps on leaving the loaf of bread but there is no one there to take it now, no God accepting the sacrifice. I think that faith based on the believe of our own goodness is a tricky issue. I (catholic) belief that faith is redemption when we are humble to understand that we are just not enough. Not in a self-loathing way, but in a way where you, the rich man, understand that your deficiencies are just as bad as mine, the poor man. And the love of God is the only thing that will compensate for this. Then and only then can we feel like we are equals.
NB: the "you" and "me" adjudications are merely ilustratory. Me mentioning I was raised catholic is to provide the background of my take on life and redemption.
I truly enjoyed your post and I think your son showed some remarkable courage to say that where he did ;)
Well, David, there lies the conundrum of religion and the belief that God has a hand in human behavior. For what one might describe as "bad" people, religion becomes a justification to act immorally...I did not want to take away your civil rights, or impress you into slavery, or burn you at the stake, but it was God's will. There are scores of everyday acts that fall into that category, many currently advocated by Mike Johnson. For what one might describe as "good" people, religion and the belief that God has a hand in human behavior has no relevance...they behave morally simply because they believe it is the right thing to do. There is a scene in Lawrence of Arabia where Prince Faisel, speaking to the cynical American reporter, says, "For Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. For me, it is merely good manners. I leave it to you to decide which is the more...reliable." That notion can be extrapolated to many areas of human interaction, which leaves the question of whether religion and the belief that God has any hand whatever in human behavior makes the human species more or less likely to act with generosity, courtesy, fairness, self-sacrifice and many other traits that just about every religion defines as righteous.
I'm curious how your adult Andrew would respond given today's environment?
"People can be kind and generous and noble for no other reason than their belief in their own goodness and the goodness of others." Thanks for these words, David. That belief is what can save us, once again.
Great piece. Reread the book during the pandemic. Favorite scene
The Brothers Karamazov I read first in my teens and then again in my thirties. The section of the Grand Inquisitor remains indelible for me. I do think we live now in a dangerous time while we wait to see if individuals will find the way to stand and speak and vote against the terror that awaits and knows no bounds.
Fascinating.
The following verse is my most favorite list and my least favorite list at the same time:
“Truly you are a God who hides himself.” (Isaiah 45:15)
Wonderful story of your son and weaving in the Grand Inquisitor and Brothers Karamazov. I’m a believer in Hashem with strong trust and faith. Your question brings up so many variances. Here’s my answer—Our fragmentation is both a bug and feature of the human condition. Ever since Eve took that bite. (G-d’s reaction— Really? You just opened up a can of worms— in the apple too.) We became complicated fragments of G-d. I could go on but it would be a treatise. Oy.
When you consider the possibility/probability/assurance that God is revealed in the actions of humans, it is both feature and bug.
The piece is, as always well crafted and enjoyable to read, especially since I know the 12 year old in both his past and current mischief-making incarnations. But it recalls for me the time in adolescence when I was enthralled by Dostoevsky and his Big Ideas - as if there were some major philosophical problem presented by his parable that deserved grave consideration. Then for better or worse any interest in Dostoevsky or his Ideas was obliterated by a true master, Vladimir Nabokov, who had this to say about Fyodor:
“Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human English words expressing several, although by no means all, aspects of poshlost are, for instance, ”cheap,” ”sham,” ”smutty,” ”highfalutin,” ”in bad taste.” dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place.””
–from Lectures on Russian Literature, reprinted in The New York Times.
Two other quotes come to mind reading your piece, maybe idiosyncratically conceived and not truly connected to the GI or your musings, or maybe the product of natural connection:
(1) "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.... I agree with the second part."
Det. Somerset (played by the inimitable Morgan Freeman), 7even. (A minute or so after: "What's in the bahhxxx!?")
(2) Philosophy is just a byproduct of misunderstanding language.
Wittgenstein